CNN
—
Audio of then-President Joe Biden’s interview with former special counsel Robert Hur in the now-closed probe over Biden’s handling of classified documents was published by Axios on Friday.
The interview became one of the most notable and politically controversial parts of Hur’s investigation, which concluded there wasn’t enough evidence to charge Biden with criminal mishandling of records after his vice presidency. In a final report, Hur called Biden, 81 at the time, “a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”
While transcripts of Biden’s interview with Hur became public last year, these excerpts are the first audio recording of the interview to surface.
An official with the Department of Justice has confirmed the tapes’ authenticity to CNN.
A Biden spokeswoman, Kelly Scully, told CNN, “The transcripts were released by the Biden administration more than a year ago. The audio does nothing but confirm what is already public.”
The audio comes as questions about Biden’s physical and mental capabilities have returned to the spotlight. A forthcoming book – “Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again” by CNN’s Jake Tapper and Axios’ Alex Thompson – details signs of Biden’s decline while in office.
Biden sat for interviews with Hur for five hours over a two-day span in the fall of 2023 as part of the special counsel’s investigation into his handling of classified materials.
In one, nearly four-and-a-half-minute clip published by Axios, Biden was asked where he kept papers on matters he was “actively working” on after leaving office as vice president in 2017. Biden took a long pause and said, “I don’t know,” and then went on to talk about seemingly unrelated things that happened during that time period, such as people encouraging him to run for president in 2016. He also had trouble remembering when his eldest son, Beau, died, and needed confirmation from those in the room.
“What month did Beau die,” Biden asked before taking a pause. “Oh, God, May 30th…”
Two people finished the then-president’s sentence: “2015.”
“Was it 2015 he had died?” Biden questioned.
In a second clip from Axios, Biden, when asked whether he knew that he had kept a memo related to Afghanistan, first said, “I don’t know that I knew. But when pressed further, Biden said, “I guess I wanted to hang onto it just for posterity’s sake.”
Shortly after, one person from Biden’s team interjected and attempted to clarify the president’s answer.
“I just really would like to avoid for the purpose of a clean record, getting into speculative areas,” the person said, adding, “His recollection, as I understand it, is he does not recall specifically intending to keep this memo after he left the vice presidency.”
In February of last year, Hur declined to bring charges against Biden, but in a final report said the former president “willfully retained and disclosed classified materials.” The more politically damaging part of Hur’s findings came in his characterization of the president as a “well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,” one who would likely win over a jury if he faced prosecution.
Biden and his allies fiercely disputed Hur’s characterization as inaccurate and unfair, including pushing back on the special counsel raising that he didn’t remember when his eldest son Beau died in his report.
House Republicans sought records relating to the interview, including transcripts and audio recordings, in their long-running impeachment investigation into Biden, which ultimately fizzled out.
The Justice Department provided a transcript of the interview to Congress, but Biden asserted executive privilege over the audio recordings. House Republicans voted to hold then-Attorney General Merrick Garland in contempt for refusing to turn over the recordings, but the Justice Department declined to pursue contempt charges at the time.
On Friday, President Donald Trump told reporters Attorney General Pam Bondi and her team would determine whether the audio should be released.
“That’s up to Pam [Bondi] and the group. I haven’t really looked into,” he said before departing Abu Dhabi. “Everybody understands the condition of him. I know people that are 89, 90, 92, 93 years old and are literally perfect. But Joe was not one of them, and they did a lot of hiding. They were they were really playing games. And, you know, you can’t do that. Our country’s at stake.”
Top Democrats, including several potential 2028 contenders, have faced questions about the new revelations in Tapper and Thompson’s forthcoming book, including whether they knew of the former president’s decline. The new round of scrutiny comes as the party is eager to move past the 2024 election and focus on waging a more forceful opposition to Trump.
Biden’s team has pushed back on the book’s claims. “We continue to await anything that shows where Joe Biden had to make a presidential decision or where national security was threatened or where he was unable to do his job. In fact, the evidence points to the opposite – he was a very effective president,” a spokesperson for Biden told CNN.
In an interview on ABC’s “The View” last week, Biden, now 82-years-old, defended his time in office and pushed back on claims he experienced significant cognitive decline while in office.
“They are wrong,” Biden said last week. “There is nothing to sustain that.”
This story has been updated with additional details.
